|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 45 post(s) |
Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate Tactical Narcotics Team
14
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 17:06:00 -
[1] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Loraine Gess wrote:Soniclover, I would ask if it's possible to retract bids on teams. If it so possible, then you will hand us an important tool to wage economic warfare. And isn't that the point of the market? PVP? Hm, could work. We'll look into it, thought it might lead to too weird situation. Would have to be worked into the sniper rules, as the most important thing is how things stand in the last minute of the auction.
Are retractable bids typically allowed in the auction world? I mean, I understand trying to bid something up to make another guy pay more, but the concept of being able to pull a bid once made doesn't seem logical. |
Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate Tactical Narcotics Team
14
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 17:09:00 -
[2] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Riela Tanal wrote:So why are the teams NPCs instead of composed of players? Seems more like focusing more on solo work then a combined effort for industrial operations. I was envisioning more of the team aspect function in industry but I suppose I can wait and see. Cooperative gameplay in industry requires complete rewrite of the corp role system. Hopefully that will happen soon (you didn't read this here).
Is that a troll, as in soon (tm)? Or its an actual possibility that you're going to rewrite the corp role system, someday (tm)? |
Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate Tactical Narcotics Team
14
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 17:24:00 -
[3] - Quote
The idea that winning bids allow public access to these teams seems odd. Why should the random player who didn't help bring a team to a particular solar system be allowed the derive any benefit at all? Bids should be placed on behalf of a corporation, maybe an alliance. Or, if you want to allow for random players to work together to win a bid, then allow for both public and private ownership. If a single player/corp/alliance wants to lure a team to their location, let them bid to do so. Otherwise this is just going to lead to other players riding the coattails of the players willing to put in the cost and effort to win a bid. |
Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate Tactical Narcotics Team
15
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 17:34:00 -
[4] - Quote
MailDeadDrop wrote:mkint wrote:Your analogy doesn't answer the question asked, but it does bring up an interesting point...
there's a reason all cars in the US are made in detroit. (except saturns, but does anybody really care about saturn? do they even still exist?) I stopped reading right there. You have false starting conditions. Toyotas are assembled in Mississippi, Kentucky, Texas, and Indiana. Hondas are assembled in Alabama, Ohio, and Indiana. Fords are assembled in Michigan, Illinois, Missouri, Kentucky, and Texas. Et cetera. (Cite: various Wikipedia pages. Look for "List of (manufacturer) facilities") MDD
Yeah wow. Holy 1985 frame of reference. Saturns aren't even a thing anymore, let alone Detroit. |
Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate Tactical Narcotics Team
15
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 17:38:00 -
[5] - Quote
Scarlett LaBlanc wrote:Dirk MacGirk wrote:The idea that winning bids allow public access to these teams seems odd. Why should the random player who didn't help bring a team to a particular solar system be allowed the derive any benefit at all? Bids should be placed on behalf of a corporation, maybe an alliance. Or, if you want to allow for random players to work together to win a bid, then allow for both public and private ownership. If a single player/corp/alliance wants to lure a team to their location, let them bid to do so. Otherwise this is just going to lead to other players riding the coattails of the players willing to put in the cost and effort to win a bid. The idea is that the star system is bidding to bring this team to the system. Once the Team arrives they put them selves out for hire at a set price. The team would want as many jobs as they could get. This IS cooperative industry, just not they way most of us expected. You get to cooperate with the rest of the star system to get the team, then everyone gets the benefit. I love the fact it forces you to cooperate with your competition!
The idea may be that the solar system is bidding, but the reality is probably more that just a few players coordinated to make that happen. Then after the fact, outsiders can move in and reap the benefits. I'm just saying that its OK to provide a public option, but it is equally OK to allow players/corps/alliance to make private bids as well.
There is a difference between cooperation, forced cooperation, and freeloading. But I do recognize some people are OK with freeloaders. |
Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate Tactical Narcotics Team
15
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 18:23:00 -
[6] - Quote
Gamer4liff wrote:350125GO wrote:
Thanks,
I read the first few pages, I don't have full time to read 20+ pages.
Yeah no problem. I suppose with ~4,000 teams at any given time chances are the lower quality/weird spec ones will be obtainable fairly cheaply (relative to the higher end ones, anyway), though this seems like something that we'll only know after the fact when this goes live. CCP should be ready to re-balance somewhat if even the lowest of the low quality teams are significantly out of reach for typical manufacturers. Having some teams be region-locked could be a good way to ensure local availability at at least some level too. Jayem See wrote:Make them be collected by players. Players that collect them automatically have a suspect/criminal flag. Oh yeah - make them 2500m3. 4 people as 2500m3?
or it can be like PLEX: just because it's in the game doesn't mean you can afford it or have some unalienable human right to access. |
Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate Tactical Narcotics Team
15
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 18:54:00 -
[7] - Quote
Ludacrys wrote:To me this seems like a blatant high sec nerf, nullsec boost.
They are doubling the cost of jump freighter fuel They are allowing for people to spend money on teams that give up to 5% ME, why would i spend ISK on something everyone can use? the answer is you wont unless you also control the system (0.0, WH, etc) Outposts on top of that have another 5% ME
Not to mention the changes to ore and mineral compression
CCP wants people in 0.0 but i think the problem is the blobbing system that always benefits the people with power, CCP really needs to boost asymmetrical warfare or people will never go to 0.0 unless they are renters or pets
high sec nerf, nullsec boost? Let's see here...
50% increase in the consumption of jump fuel? Check - hurts nullsec more since the need to jump back and forth is more.
Teams that require mass numbers of players to bid in a combined way to attract teams to a single system? Check - bigger population in hisec allowing for more people to combine their bids.
Ore and minerals? Check: most construction ores/mins come from hisec
Seems pretty biased towards nullsec to me. |
Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate Tactical Narcotics Team
15
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 20:32:00 -
[8] - Quote
Lost Hamster wrote:Seriously... Dear Devs, what have you smoked recently? I know that some of you can not handle Chilli You know what I have liked in the industry? It's calculable. You give X in, you get Y out. With the recent plans to change the industry, it will be like a big black box. You put the X and some Z, and hopefully you get Y back. But your prices will fluctuate like hell. Good that my account expires in 5 day and 5 hours.. not sure if I want to play this industry anymore. See you at Star Citizen.
Yeah, how's that Star Citizen industry expansion coming along? WTF. SC. Enjoy your ship and hangar. Have they implemented ship spinning yet?
You had me at the level of increased complication and uncertainty, some of it just to be complicated. But then you went full popsicle with the Star Citizen horseshite. C'mon man. |
Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate Tactical Narcotics Team
15
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 20:38:00 -
[9] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Cultural Enrichment wrote:Shinya Shazih wrote:CCP SoniClover wrote:handige harrie wrote:If teams have a minimum cost per Jump and teams can be used in Wormholes, how are bids from WH's calculated? They're assumed to have a fixed jump distance of 50. So a number of teams spawn every day, what prevents me from hiring all of them into my wormhole? You would have to outbid everyone else, which, I'm sure, may become quite expensive quickly. Top teams will soon be going for hundreds of millions in an auction. Imagine how many T2 Battleships or Jump Freighters they can pump out out in 1 month in a single null sec station (edit, should have said POS, since they will be getting some bonus as well, and a POS in deep null is completely safe), maxed out in upgrades, but restricted to a small elite team of manufacturers, to keep slot costs at a fixed known rate. Individuals / small high sec indy corps will be completely shut out of the process for top tier teams. But that is OK. That is by design. "Null sec way or the highway", is new CCP motto, which the cartel leaders personally tattooed on the foreheads of every dev.
Oh man, he accused EVE devs of favoritism. *** EULA Alert ***
|
Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate Tactical Narcotics Team
16
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 21:11:00 -
[10] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Top teams will soon be going for hundreds of millions in an auction. Imagine how many T2 Battleships or Jump Freighters they can pump out out in 1 month in a single null sec station (edit, should have said POS, since they will be getting some bonus as well, and a POS in deep null is completely safe), maxed out in upgrades, but restricted to a small elite team of manufacturers, to keep slot costs at a fixed known rate.
Individuals / small high sec indy corps will be completely shut out of the process for top tier teams. But that is OK. That is by design. "Null sec way or the highway", is new CCP motto, which the cartel leaders personally tattooed on the foreheads of every dev.
Again the complained about fact of only a few (relatively) outposts in null works in the favour of those in null. They only need to guarantee outbidding on the best teams to fill the outposts for the pre-planned runs and they are automatically guaranteed to outproduce the opposition on whichever item they build since no-one else can compete with the remaining teams. Compound that with the 20% refining boost , outpost me boost and anything else I missed and this is looking good for null production.
[/quote]
I guess logistics is free, right? The 50% increase in jump fuel consumption doesn't kinda hurt nullsec producers just a little? Maybe? You think any real nullsec producer is going to be building battleships to sell in empire? I think you're pretty safe there. Carry on. |
|
Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate Tactical Narcotics Team
17
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 07:27:00 -
[11] - Quote
Arronicus wrote:Yongtau Naskingar wrote:Quote:The team becomes immediately available for hire in the winning system. I can't send a few bits and bytes to my POS in system anymore, but a bunch of people travel without the help of a capsuleer halfway across the galaxy? Harumpf. It seems to me like convoluted system that'll do very little in the end. Big alliances will just buy up the teams and that'll be the end of it. Hard pressed to find a better example of someone who has jumped to conclusions without actually reading all the information. With a little over 4,000 teams available at any one time, they will not all be controlled by big alliances. While I don't doubt goonswarm, PL, or some other group getting it in their mind to 'buy up ALL the teams', or at least all the ones giving bonuses to certain areas, a few industrious individuals could very quickly make this an incredibly expensive and fruitless strategy, by selectively bidding up teams to the point where said buyout group would be shelling out too much for each team. Provided that CCP doesn't do something stupid, like allowing the minimum bid on teams to be increased by 0.01 isk, I think this system will work out well.
Can it be gamed? To some extent, yes. It all depends on how much big players (groups) want to spend to do it. But some times price isn't the issue. Burn Jita for example. It's not about ISK efficiency. In that same regard, if certain groups want to try and buy up all the top teams and choose to pay any price just so you can't have them, that may be possible for a time. But CCP can always expand the number of available teams that spawn in order to correct this. It could become a test of wills, but in the end CCP can break them if they choose to do so. |
Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate Tactical Narcotics Team
17
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 07:48:00 -
[12] - Quote
E6o5 wrote:so how do the teams get from there home system to their destination, e.g. a wormhole? does any player needs to actually ship them there (which would be cool as the could get killed or taken and put to another system/task) or do they magically spawn in system?
Magic, or whatever you want to consider unseen movement. They just appear once the auction has been won. Interdiction has been suggested but not on the table based on dev comments |
Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate Tactical Narcotics Team
19
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 20:47:00 -
[13] - Quote
Green Gambit wrote:Volar Kang wrote:So highsec POS's are going away after the change... We can build cheaper in stations a few jumps from trade hubs AND now we will have to follow the teams to get the best manufacturing. Is there going to be any reason to have a highsec POS after these changes besides the whopping 5% reduction in manufacturing costs? 1) Follow the teams for at best a 7.5% reduction in manufacturing costs - if there's a team available with the bonus. You may not be able to access such a good team, and may have to settle for a smaller team bonus. On top of that you've got time/costs of moving manufacturing operations every 28 days. 2) Setup a POS for a 5% reduction in manufacturing costs. Add in fuel-costs etc. However you've got a more stable base of operations. That's actually making it look a closer call than you're making out...
The 5% material cost reduction for POS arrays was announced as a devpost in the middle of the threadnaught. That was subsequently changed to 2%. |
Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate Tactical Narcotics Team
19
|
Posted - 2014.05.02 13:53:00 -
[14] - Quote
El Geo wrote:CCP SoniClover wrote:
.......we are wary of encouraging nomadic behavior too much.
Ah so CCP don't like nomadic behaviour? I think I'm starting to understand, unfortunately for me I rather like a nomadic gamestyle.
Then luckily you won't require their encouragement to be a nomad. As long as they aren't discouraging it, your sandbox remains relatively clear of cat shite. |
Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate Tactical Narcotics Team
19
|
Posted - 2014.05.02 15:14:00 -
[15] - Quote
Seith Kali wrote:This is so, so much better than what I was looking for...
I presume you were looking for nothing? Thus something was better? lol |
Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate Tactical Narcotics Team
20
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 22:09:00 -
[16] - Quote
Furoth wrote:Weaselior wrote:well, that depends on if you've got a security deposit ready and can pass the background check This just highlights my point(oh and thanks). Those with the isk can benefit from the system; those without, the little guys, cannot. It's a one sided system and a bad idea.
That's not true. It shouldn't be the few with ISK because they can't outdo the many who organize. But what you are really saying is that it's too hard to try and organize and as a result it will be the few with money or the small groups who can organize. But that is the story of EVE. Better organization always wins.
If Hisec could ever find a way of coming together, they could completely screw the big nullsec entities. Not just in terms of the Teams, but in a good many ways related to this expansion. But they won't, so forget I mentioned it. |
|
|
|